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Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
52
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Posted - 2013.04.30 08:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:It doesnt make financial sense for CCP to do this. People would sell them on ebay for a low price and therefore CCP wouldn't get money for them. Basic economics tells you this is not going to happen enless CCP are feeling really generous. But even then it stinks of RMTing and I cant see CCP supporting that.
Are you serious? Do you even comprehend how PLEX works? 1 Plex = like $20 right?
Every CE that is sold on ebay has already been purchased from CCP using $$$. Even when someone buys it with plex, someone had to buy that plex from CCP for it to be sold. If the plex cost of the CE was greater than the value of the RL money offer, say 12 plex which equals to what $240, an extra 90 dollars from the flat fee of $150. Not only is that an extra $90 CCP has made through someone buying the PLEX to sell on the market but the person buying the CE with plex is paying for more despite paying less $$$. And CCP know that every PLEX this person loses is also a month of game time. 12 plexes = a year of game time.
So let's say the guy who bought it using 12 plexes then lists the CE on ebay. Bearing in mind this product has already been purchased from CCP for 240 dollars. they would have to sell it less than $150 to be competitive with CCP's prices and compete against others doing the same thing. Ok let's say Bob sells it to Joe for $100.
What the individual gains
- Joe is happy because he got the CE for $100 paying $50 dollars less than retail
- Bob is happy because he now has $100 dollars for something he paid $240 for through digital currency
- CCP is happy because they still made $240 dollars from a single product that other people are buying for $150 and know that Bob no longer has a CE. Also the fact that 12 plex has been removed from the economy without being added to game time.
What the individual loses
- Joe is out of $100
- Bob is out of a CE/12 months game time
- CCP is out of Joe's custom but doesn't care because at the end of the day they made an extra 90 dollars off the same product
Of course if the cost of a CE via plex was greater than 12, then CCP's profit is only going to increase. This is obviously ignoring plex offers, as no doubt CCP would always have the CE at a price that always generated profit, regardless of sales. I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
56
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Posted - 2013.04.30 13:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Hah. Last few posts make it obvious people don't actually read the thread before writing their walls of text. Like I said slightt miscalculation on my part, CCP would not lose any money due to this.
I'm not sure what is worse, my miscalculation, or peoples lack of reading ability.
I read it. I merely wrote it for others who share(d) your initial opinion. I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Making it buyable via PLEX is basicly giving it away for free, as someone has already bought the PLEX and put it on the market.
What you just said. How is it being given away for free when the PLEX used to buy it is in tself bought from CCP.
And you do realise that PLEX that is being used for something else means that it isn't going towards game time right? I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:[quote=Xen Solarus]Making it buyable via PLEX is basicly giving it away for free, as someone has already bought the PLEX and put it on the market. What you just said. How is it being given away for free when the PLEX used to buy it is in tself bought from CCP. Cause CCP already has the cash for the PLEX. They've made their profit. By making the CE buyable via PLEX it's basicly reducing the profit on the sale of the PLEX in the first place. They're much better off selling it seperate for cash. Example: 1 - Person buys PLEX, CCP gets cash, someone buys for isk. 2 - Person buys PLEX, CCP gets cash, someone buys for isk - uses to get CE, CCP loses cash. Example 1 gets them cash from PLEX and CE (assuming they want to buy it). Example 2 just loses them cash from the sales of the CE, as they already have the cash for the PLEXs.
No, CCP doesn't lose cash because every PLEX that is used towards the CE is 30 days game time that someone is going to have to buy again. If it cost say 12 PLEX to buy the CE, that's a whole year of game time CCP will get to make again. Just because the sale isn't directly attached to the CE doesn't mean that CCP isn't making a profit.
Quote:Like i've already said, its not like people are going to suddenly start buying more PLEX to help out randoms that want to get the CE via PLEX.
No, people are going to start buying more PLEX when they realise demand has increased significantly. Let's say it cost 12 PLEX to purchase the CE. Suddenly more people are buying PLEX in bulk and the supply is going down, as a result the demand for PLEX increases so the price for PLEX goes up too. People think "oh now is a good time to buy PLEX because I can sell it for 20% more than usual". I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
58
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Allow me to take you through it, step by step, with a nice hypothetical.
Introducting Mark. He's a big shot CEO of some global corporation. He makes cash, hand over fist, but is far too busy outsourcing jobs to China to have time to grind isk. He decides to spend his cash on 12 PLEX, CCP makes -ú179. He sells these in game for isk.
Introducing Luke. He's an overweight jobless middle-aged man still living in his parents basement. He's also the leader of a grand nullsec alliance, making isk hand over fist from moon-goo.
Now, assuming Luke wants to buy the CE, two things can happen.
1- If things remain as they are now, he's forced to buy it using cash, likely scrounged from his parents. So CCP has made -ú150! This is in addition to their PLEX sales. Mark didn't care where or what those PLEX were bought for, he just wanted the isk.
2 -If things were changed to that the CE could be bought via PLEX, thats no issue for isk-rich Luke. He gives Mark the isk for the PLEX he put on the market. So CCP effectively loses -ú150 they could have earned if the CE was exclusively available via cash.
In the first instance CCP gets -ú179 AND -ú150. In the second CCP gets -ú179 MINUS -ú150.
Okay first of all what's Luke buying PLEX for if not for the CE? That's right, game time. 360 fat days of it, an entire year. If that game time isn't being added to his account then where is it going? It's being removed from the game that's where if he buys the CE.
So in the first instance yes, CCP gets -ú179 from PLEX sales and -ú150 from Luke for the CE.
However in the second instance, CCP again gets -ú179 from PLEX sales. Which Luke buys off the market using his hard earned ISK. Now Luke has one of two options
1. Convert 12 PLEX in to 360 days game time 2. Spend 12 PLEX to purchase the CE at the expense of 360 days game time.
If Luke chooses option 1 then he doesn't need to pay CCP for an entire year for anything if he chooses to.
If Luke chooses option 2 then he will have his precious CE but at the expense of 360 days game time which HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BUY FROM CCP OR BUY ANOTHER 12 PLEX OFF THE MARKET. Caps for emphasising point.
And I wasn't sure of the exact price of plex, seeing it at this price it would make sense to make the CE around 14 or 15 PLEX anyway.
So CCP would earn (if the CE cost 12 PLEX im thinking it would be better at 14 now)
+-ú179 from Mark --ú150 from CE bought through PLEX from Luke + either -ú179 from more PLEX sales from Luke to continue his sub or however much a year of game time costs with a deal. (this is why I think it would be better near 14 or 15 plex to compensate) but let's just assume Mark is super internet rich and goes with PLEX. I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
59
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:So your counter-arguement boils down to that CCP will make this money anyways over the long-term subscription on our theoretical Luke, assuming he doesn't rage-quit of course. But you're forgetting that the PLEX has already been bought. CCP has already made their profit there. It makes them more profit to make the CE only buyable with cash. This isn't even taking into account the production costs of the CE itself. It's impossible for them to make a 100% profit.
Are you joking? Do you seriously think it would cost -ú150 to make what they are offering? I highly doubt that the cost of the materials etc of the CE even exceeds 30 pounds for each when bought in bulk.
Quote:I'll give it one final shot before giving up. There's only so many times I can facepalm.
The irony in this statement is laughable.
Quote:Lets assume it costs them like -ú50 to produce the CE, so that would be -ú100 per unit sold.
I highly doubt your assumptions.
Quote:Lets assume they are only selling 50 of them. Lets also assume that it takes about 12 PLEX to buy one CE. (12 = -ú179)
I already stated that I believe 15 PLEX was more of an adequate/probable cost. And they are only selling 50 copies to a player base of (supposedly) 50k? Please. Already this assumption is irrelevant. I will have to ignore the "important" part as it uses terrible assumptions to try and base facts.
Quote:I'm not sure i can make this any clearer. From a pure-profit perspective, it makes much more sense to sell them for cash only. Your arguements about it boosting PLEX sales, and peoples continued subscription making up the differences doesn't work.
No the point is with your previous argument, under the two instances you gave you failed to see one significant flaw you made.
The fact is, if the sale of the CE totally ignores PLEX as a method of payment then you shouldn't include it in the profits made by CCP because that's now irrelevent as PLEX is only being used for Game Time.
Whereas if you include PLEX as a payment for the CE you NEED to include it otherwise the system wouldn't work. Because PLEX going the CE isn't going to someone elses game time.
The simple fact of the matter is, CCP will earn more money with the addition of PLEX sales than a credit card only approach.
It boils down to:
CE with credit card only = -ú150
CE with (12) PLEX = -ú180 at the end of the day regardless of who bought the PLEX from CCP (though I believe 15 PLEX would be more appropriate)
Seriously, that's it. I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Although I can't afford either methods at this moment in time, I think it would make sense for them to implement it looking purely from the perspective of profit. As businesses tend to do... I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |

Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Of course it does. Just not yours. You still want the CE for no cash outlay. What CCP is requesting, is that the people getting the CE are the ones paying out of pocket for it. That may change and I expect it will if there are not enough sales for cash. But for now, you either pony up the bucks or whine in the forum about how unfair it is. Mr Epeen 
So what if it's not coming from our pocket, as long as it is coming from someone else's (with permission of course) it's fine. If CCP had this approach they would be against PLEX in the first place because other people are paying for our game time.
I fail to see the difference in someone paying CCP money, to acquire items to sell for in game currency. And someone then buying those items in exchange for CCP's service. (letting us log on and play) Compared to buying those items for a product from CCP.
I think it's a little too late to be drawing lines for such similar exchanges.
I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |
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